EP 180 – Chase Williams & Ryan Klein – How Law Firms Will Win in 2023 Part I
The following interview has been transcribed for our readers from rev.com. Please excuse any discrepancies from the transcription.
Chase Williams:
Today in the Legal Mastermind podcast, we have a very special episode, myself, Chase Williams and my co-host Ryan Klein. We’re going to be talking about how law firms will win in 2023, and this is the third year we’ve done this, so we’re excited to bring it back because it’s one of the most popular podcasts we do every single year.
Ryan Klein:
I was going to say never stop winning. It’s like one of the biggest quotes, actually, not one of those quotes. But yeah, I think that we’re continuing to do this. We normally do this in Q4, right? Starts October, November and we put out about 10 tactics or strategies or things to be on the lookout for the following year. And I think that it’s been pretty accurate. I don’t think we’re going to go back to see how accurate it’s at the moment, but we definitely have the articles on marketmymarket.com that’ll show that a lot of these things came to fruition in the following year.
So, we’re excited about these. Start with five today.
Chase Williams:
Let’s do it. So first off, demand consultative marketing from your marketing partners. So that’s something that hopefully your marketing partners are not just putting you into a drip campaign and just doing the same monotonous things every single month. And so, as a client you should be demanding more, you should be demanding that your agency takes a consultative approach to what you’re doing because you’re so different than your competitor even down the street.
Ryan Klein:
Exactly. Yeah, I think that especially with the growing number of agencies and it keeps chasing eye on our toes. We love it when there’s a thousand new digital marketing agencies every week, but truth be told, there’s a lot that come out and they pick niches because they read some sort of Facebook agency group or course on drilling down and being specific industry. And sometimes people probably roll the dice, and they say legal, and they don’t really know much about what it is to work in legal.
So, they can certainly talk about the SEO or the content or certain things. But the second you have anything business related or anything branding or operations or anything unique beyond that kind of scope and you get the deer and headlights, then that’s an issue that people should know what it is to really market and develop a law firm, specifically those cookie cutter agencies.
Chase Williams:
They’re not bad for everybody, but maybe if you’ve never done marketing before, it might make sense to talk to them. But a lot of it’s the first thing they capture with is the 25 things that are going to transform your business. And a lot of times, most of the advice you see in these YouTube commercials or Facebook commercials, it’s very convoluted and it’s always like, we’ve done this for this person. And they’re very selective. It’s like, all right, what about the hundred other clients?
It’s easy to get lucky in marketing because there’s so many external factors, hundreds, and there’s thousands of different tactics that you might just get lucky, and something might work. You might write a blog and all of a sudden that blog is just the number one traffic driver for all your campaigns and all of your potential clients. But it’s important to be demanding and to push your agency because you’re paying for it and you’re probably paying a lot of money if you have a good agency.
Ryan Klein:
And with the amount of competition that’s out there, I really think agencies have fallen into mostly buckets where they’re not working with dozens and dozens of industries, either a handful or mostly legal. I mean you can have conversations with the consultant and you’re talking about SEO or content and the second you start asking about, should I do this practice area?
I’m going to do aviation. I don’t even know what the heck you’re talking about. I just have motor vehicle accidents. That’s kind of an issue. Things are nuanced and there’s a lot of trends and I’m talking about bar regulations as a whole other conversation. So, it’s like I did keyword research and best in top, why don’t you say best on every single page? And it’s like, well it’s because it’s against the bar ethics. I can’t do that kind of thing. And it’s like, what are you doing on my content now? What are you putting out there? I mean, not trying to scare people, but these are the things that definitely happen with people that aren’t familiar with the industry for pretty much an extended period of time. There are best practices from both a consumer but also an ethics standpoint when it comes to these things.
And as it becomes more competitive, the bar just has to be set higher for the kind of people that are consulting and advising and working on your digital presence among other things.
What’s next?
Chase Williams:
All right, how many lawyers, you know, have to get your CLE credits and that’s part of just making sure that you’re a good lawyer and you’re up to speed with everything that’s going on. But there’s so many things outside of what you do on a day-to-day basis that are changing, especially in the marketing realm, in the intake realm, in the technology realm. So many new products, there’s so many new services and it’s important to learn about these things. It’s important to learn, what’s next? I know one thing I do remember from last year’s podcast, we were like, hey, this thing LSAs is coming up. I remember about two years ago, who knows?
And we were kind of speculating about what that would be like. You could have done that yourself and it was so easy at first and that’s just some simple education, but now it’s like there’s a lot higher Barrett entry ‘cause everybody’s doing it now. So, it’s important. Get educated and that way you can even go to your agency and say, can you guys do this for me? I read this article or are we doing this? And that kind of pushes them to say, okay, these clients, they actually are paying attention. We need to step up our game.
Ryan Klein:
I know this isn’t a conversation necessarily about LSAs, but man, it is crazy how much that has changed. I remember the top three spots; those are all that matter. No one’s going to click through, but you remember you would click through, and it’d be like, okay, there’s like four or five more now you’d click through and there’s like 80 or 90 more.
So, it’s okay to push the agency, but you know how Google is. It’s typically good for a little bit and then you gotta move on to the next thing, especially with paid. And again, that comes with education and it’s a two-way street. I mean sometimes you do have to, as a business owner and being a business owner, there’s aspects of business development and marketing and being aware of the kind of what’s happening. But your agency should also be keeping you a little bit aware of what’s on the horizon and if LSAs are working anymore and what’s the reason? And along with that and content or Google my business or Google ads or this particular directory. I guess on the other side of development, we’re talking about marketing, but I don’t know about you Chase, it’s the most I’ve ever heard about law firms talking about EOS and their values and operations.
And it’s been interesting. It feels like there’s almost like an explosion of these things in the past couple years.
Chase Williams:
What the heck is EOS?
Ryan Klein:
Google App. You don’t know what it is?
Chase Williams:
But yeah, I mean there’s so much above and beyond just like there’s so many resources now that will help you run your firm more effectively, more efficiently. And there’s so many key points that help with retention with clients, retention with employees, just having a general picture. If you really want to spend time to do what’s right for your business, do what’s right for your clients and employees, there’s so many practices you can put into play that are not it’s framework that you can just follow and you’re not, as a business owner, I feel like a lot of in the past you’re kind of stuck in the dark and you’re like, I started this from the ground up. I don’t know, I read a business book when I was in my undergrad and that’s what I’m going off of.
And now there’s just so many resources and they keep getting better and better because everything’s evolving.
Ryan Klein:
There’s also a lot more out there that is new or emerging and it’s hard to know which one the direction is to go in. So, from our standpoint, and I cringe by saying the Cardones and the Gary V’s and all that kind of stuff, but I don’t know if that carries over for law firm development in it, I hope it doesn’t. I think I’ll just put it out there. But there are aspects that probably get picked up. They do get picked up by some lawyers that are like, now I’m a biz dev lawyer. And there’s certainly that kind of thing that carries on to that. I think part of it is probably somewhat refreshing.
I’d imagine that as a lawyer, of course the passion for practicing law, but there is at least what we hear from our clients and people that we talk to, there’s a little bit more of, they feel like a little bit reinvigorated because of they’re doing something a little different in the practice. It’s not always, I guess, mentoring lawyers or doing a lot of the actual work, but it’s also being able to be involved in operations and business development and think a little bit differently than maybe they have in years. So, I think that it’s nice, refreshing. It’s just a matter of how you want to go about pursuing it. If you go all into something tried and true for the most part, like the US or you go down the rabbit hole for maybe some of the business bros that are out there and what they’re trying to accomplish.
Chase Williams:
So, you just spoke about mentoring and that’s our next topic. So, developing young talent to secure your future it’s so important. I mean there’s so many smart young college graduates that are, it’s a whole other generation of people that just grew up so different than any of us did just with the technology and the resources and just the natural ways of thinking. And a lot of times those people are put at the bottom of the totem pole, and they’re not given attention and it’s like, only our partners are, those are associates, they can work 80 hours a week, who cares? But there’s so much importance in fostering and keeping once you have a good employee, it’s hard to hold onto them. As you look at resumes now, I know when we’re hiring it’s like, this person jumped around every two years. It’s like I don’t want to hire somebody that’s going to jump in the next two years.
But it’s very common for somebody that has worked for more than a year and say, I got my experience, see you, got my experience, see you. And just keep jumping around, I’m going to get paid more. So, it’s so important to develop that talent and foster it and create a relationship and create, I don’t want to say a family, but create that family type environment where everybody cares about each other and they’re working toward that one common goal.
Ryan Klein:
I’m sure some of our listeners are like, I’m going to have the Gen Zs yet starting to come through some of the grads and what’s going to happen now? What are their expectations? What do they teach them in law school as far as what to expect their first job? I know with us, definitely with me, it took a while to get past some of the things I had to deal with my rite of passage where it’s just like, well, I had to wear every single hat and juggle a million things and I got paid $11 an hour and that’s therefore what the next person should deal with.
And it’s like or are you setting up a situation or environment where it’s like, that sucked I don’t want to make someone else go through that. Is it a rite of passage or is it an opportunity for a better environment?
Chase Williams:
Yeah, I mean you just don’t want to perpetuate that environment if you can avoid it, but at the same time, it’s probably good. You learn a lot from dealing with struggling. There’s a lot we learn from working those 80-hour weeks and having that bad boss, but you don’t have to be that bad boss. You can be a good boss.
Ryan Klein:
For the record, I do see the value in it, even though we don’t necessarily do that, but part of me, it just makes you think, if I didn’t have that, then what happens? Right? I know it’s going to be different. There’s different management leadership styles and different expectations, but man, it really does make you think about the kind of future long term 10, 15 years out that you want to have.
We were talking to a recruiter earlier today and there definitely are some things no matter what that is, that change, we were talking about compensation and bonuses and how there are benefits that aren’t always monetary. So, developing opportunities for growth. I think that even with our team, there’s a different appreciation for growth orientation and knowing that exists in the workplace. So, there are some things that seem to be different where they’re moving in that direction.
Chase Williams:
Yeah, no, just creating that great work environment. The one thing that was funny that I mentioned today is yeah, get gym benefits and we’ve got those. That’s pretty sweet. I’m like, it’s Oh yeah, yeah. Simple stuff like that. It’s like, hey, my company cares about my wellness and my health. That’s cool. And maybe it’ll push your employees to find a new passion or a hobby, but it’s definitely important.
Not everybody just cares about the salary. There’s definitely a large chunk of people, but there’s definitely something to say about work life balance, about awesome benefits, about a great team, about great leadership. Speaking of leadership, it’s also very important to convey I think gratitude and showing people, hey, they’re not just this recent hire that just came out of college. It’s like this person that’s affecting the business is this person that’s helping our clients and then also creating and showing them a path like, hey, where do you want to be in a year? Where do you want to be in three years? And let’s put that path together and let’s set up employee reviews, give our employees feedback that they deserve and should receive.
Ryan Klein:
I think that this is a great segue, and I don’t know, we’re not doing this on purpose, but kind of maybe very organic when Chase and I get together. But being able to periodically ensure that there are quarterly and annual reviews and the check-ins and development. You need structure and you need organization, and you need something that’s been thrown around a little bit more internally at Market My Market SOPs. And so, the more that’s in place, the more that it’s going to be consistent, fulfilling these kinds of things. So, Chase, you love SOP. So, our listeners, what is SOP? How does it apply?
Chase Williams:
I don’t want to get the explicit little next to our name on iTunes. No. So SOPs are standard operating procedures and they’re tough to put together because it’s a lot of work. It’s like, I need to put together this document that every single employee in my company is going to have to review. I’m going to have to take the time to go through these bullet points or check marks or however you structure your SOPs.
But we just implemented this new piece of software we found called TRA that’s helping us get everything organized because our SOPs are kind of all over the place. There’s like some SOPs that are on Google Drive, some are in Asana, some are in a Word document. It’s just that. So that’s really important to, I would say start off with some sort of system where you have one central database where, and that’s also going to help with training. So, as you bring people on and something that you do that’s really great, Ryan, is you record a lot of things and post them to our eternal YouTube channel for employees. So rather than having that conversation every single time with an employee, especially when you start to scale 30, 40, 50 people, it’s easier to say, hey, take the next two weeks, watch these videos, read these SOPs instead of maybe taking six months for somebody to ramp up to where your current employees are even longer.
So, once you get these SOPs in place, once you get this documentation, that’s going to be a lot of work to put together. It’s going to pay off 10, a hundred-fold. Especially when you have a key player that leaves the company. And that’s a lot of things. A lot of times people aren’t thinking about that. You’re like, this person’s going to be with me forever. They’ve been with me for 20 years. They do everything, they answer my phones. It’s like, what happens if that person decides like, I want to retire early or I want to move halfway across the country, you’re in trouble. And I’m sure they have. Need two weeks to put together all of your SOPs for your entire company. It’s scary.
Ryan Klein:
We’ve seen that before.
Chase Williams:
Yeah, so it’s just things to consider. So that’s like protecting yourself and it’s also creating an awesome platform for your new employees so they can really understand the inner workings of what’s going on and it helps things not slip through the cracks.
Ryan Klein:
In the future It’ll all be a hologram walking around and instead of watching the videos and certainly if they watch the video and anything that’s not clear in, so there’s something that doesn’t make as much sense to, I mean they can certainly follow up. It’s not a complete swap out of onboarding or training, but certainly is going to cover a lot of those bases for onboarding training than just for any sort of reference ongoing. I mean anyone listening, and this happens to all of us, I mean, how often is it that people are doing their day to day, and everyone believes in the team that everyone knows what the scope is or extent of their responsibilities and their tasks and then they say, I didn’t know that was my job. I thought that was your job, or I didn’t know I was supposed to do that. It happens every single day.
I mean, I was even on a call where I would imagine that the person leading the call would be the person that was responsible for the follow-through for all the things that were requested by the client. And then afterwards for them are like, okay, that that’s on me. And then the fifth one is, I thought that was someone else. And it’s like that person that you believe wasn’t on the call. So, there’s not any possibility of them knowing they’d have to do it. I mean, SOPs allow us to know what the next steps are, who’s responsible, what the procedure is for moving certain tasks or projects or work along.
Chase Williams:
And then all this stuff prepares you for 2024 and beyond. So, I mentioned preparing for 2024 and beyond and or say in 2024 and next year is 2023. I think this is one of the first times to really take a step back and it’s like sometimes you have got to plan for the year ahead already.
I never thought I would say it because not saying we’re shortsighted, but every year, all quarter things change so quickly that it’s like it’s hard enough to think about what’s going to happen Q2 of next year. It’s like, how am I even thinking about the year beyond? But really you have to have 2, 3, 5-year plans. Not for everything, but sometimes you do have to think about where you want to be the year after next already. And this is the first time I’m putting it out there preparing for two years in advance.
Ryan Klein:
You think in the past, the only time that discussion would come into play is like, I have a lease expiring in two years, or right, hey I, let’s put our budget goals together for the next five years. But you never really plan anything past that. I’m trying to think. Anything else you would really plan past currently your goals besides some, I don’t want to say arbitrary numbers, but some goal hitting numbers. But yeah, that’s an interesting topic to think about.
Chase Williams:
Yeah, it’s the first time I put it out because again, how law firms will win in 2023. I’m talking about 2024, and it’s hard to know, especially when you’re aggressively growing and you have a lot of plans already for next year, but there are some things you can plan that far ahead of. You can talk about really just gross revenue kind of goals. Maybe not like you know what the actual revenue net or the EBITDA is going to be, but where you want to be, if you’re going to be expanding locations people do talk about that. If you’re going to physically expand over time, you can certainly start vetting what that looks like, you can talk about maybe some bigger hires for your orgs. So, we’ve done our org chart and we’ve projected that out and we’ve done it for three or six months. But in reality, if other things line up, you could probably do tentative org charts.
You know what your organization’s going to look like when you’re going to hire a CFO or a CMO or senior positions you might anticipate later next year, the following year. And even maybe marketing budgets. Things are moving along the way that you expect. I think that there are benefits. Having that mindset. Again, I never thought I’d say it, what’s going to happen in 2024? It’s not in 2023, but long-term goals, it’s an interesting mindset.
Chase Williams:
Sometimes you have to plan for the year ahead already. I never thought I would say it because not saying we’re shortsighted, but every year, all quarter things change so quickly that it’s like it’s hard enough to think about what’s going to happen in Q2 of next year. It’s like, holy crap, how am I even thinking about the year beyond? But really you have to have 2, 3, 5-year plans, not for everything, but sometimes you do have to think about where you want to be the year after next already.
And onto the next episode…
Chase Williams:
Today on a very special episode of the Legal Mastermind podcast, we’ll be talking about the remaining five ways law firms will win in 2023. If you didn’t hear our episode that came out a couple of weeks ago, this is actually part two, so it’s actually 10 ways we’re going to be talking about law firms and the way they will win in 2023. So, we’re jumping into the second five here. Starting off talking about narrative-driven content for conversions, we love talking about content, we love content. So, one thing you believe in is story branding, Ryan.
Ryan Klein:
I do. I think that there has to be a purpose for a lot of these pages on the website besides just doing it to rank for keywords. I know from an SEO standpoint that the typical SEO will look at content as just the ends and the means of just ranking for keywords, and then they get organic traffic. People come to a website, they say, “Great, my work here is done,” and then they move on to the next thing. But it’s important to take that extra step and realize that it’s one thing to bring a qualified lead to the website, but it’s another to convert them into actual calling, and people want to understand if this law firm is the right fit for them. I think that the days of writing content for the sake of writing content and then just hoping that it converts, I think maybe that’s done.
We’re putting more time and resources into quality content, but if people are hopping on, especially from a mobile device, and it’s saying something that’s off-putting or it’s salesy or it’s only talking about the law firm, there’s just a lot of ways to deter someone from taking the next step to learning more about the law firm. So, yeah, I think that we like story branding because it creates a narrative that tries to connect with them, understand their situation, guide them through some of the first or initial questions that they may have, and then ultimately present themselves in a way that the consumer, the client, feels like this could be the right law firm for them. And I know there’s a lot more that goes into it, but, yeah, story branding creates a mindset of, what’s the purpose of this concept? What am I trying to convey? How am I trying to give this person peace of mind that we’re going to take care of them in this really serious or critical legal situation?
Chase Williams:
And there’s a great book referencing story branding by Donald Miller, Building a Story Brand. I know you read that one, Ryan. And then you also put together a really great guide that’s located on our website, and we’ll make sure to include it in the links, it’s How Content Marketing Works: A Step-by-Step Guide. So, if you really want to dive into more of the right type of content to write and the wrong type of content, those are two really great resources that you can use to further your journey. So next, moving on, and this is something we love, it’s not too late to start a podcast and we put off starting this podcast for, I don’t know, quite some time, and finally we’re just like, “Let’s just do it.”
And once you have the cadence, once you have a great editor, once you figure out your format, the possibilities are really endless, and it becomes a really fun new hobby that I think it really helps break up the mundane of the week. Sometimes you get to talk to people that are just total experts in what they do or just have a different opinion from what you have, and maybe sometimes might even influence you in your opinion, which is, it’s great to be open-minded there. But as far as law firms use that, there’s a bunch of really great resources. I know we just had the founder of LawPods on recently and his whole company, they help law firms create podcasts. And so, I think the numbers and the research you did, Ryan, it’s like over two million different podcasts that people can listen to right now. That’s insane.
Ryan Klein:
That’s hard to believe. And then the number will go up from 850,000 in 2021. So, listeners are saying, “So what? This section is called, It’s Not Too Late to Start a Podcast, but meanwhile you’re telling me that there’s two million nowadays?” I think that it’s important to also point out that the second that you take any audio file, no matter how poorly recorded or the quality, and then you just hit publish or you upload it to your favorite podcast channel, it technically counts as a podcast. So how many of these are probably one episode, or how many of these did a couple of episodes and stopped after three years? So, rest assured that there’s still, out of these two million, well, that is probably pretty accurate. It’s not saying that these are all podcasts that are done on a weekly basis for years on end. The majority are probably pretty short-lived.
Chase Williams:
What’s really cool is it doesn’t have to just be about your firm or legal. If you’re trying to really create a presence for yourself in your specific city, you could interview other business owners, you could interview local celebrities, you could talk about the local food. It’s really just something that’s going to excite you, I think. Of course, it’s great to talk about your firm and it’s easy to answer questions about what, just thinking, what your clients are asking you on a daily basis where instead of reiterating a huge 30-minute spiel to a client, you can say to them, “Hey, you know what? You had this question. I did this podcast a year ago. I’m going to briefly answer your question right now, but I talked about this for an hour.” So, it really gives you another piece of ammo to go after clients and let them know and help you establish yourself as the credible source for this information.
Ryan Klein:
Yeah, I think that’s a great point. It’s truly the go-to audio format for content. So, we just talked about content, which would be written, your web content and blogs, maybe even social posts. And then we talked a lot about video, and we’re not talking about video this time around, but we know that the power of video as far as creating that visual. But when you think about it, what’s the audio? And then a lot of times it’s a podcast. You can answer questions, you can repurpose it. There are whole campaigns that back it to increase the visibility or the reach of your podcast. Maybe your clientele thinks you’re a little bit savvier because you have your own podcast. I mean, there’s just a lot of benefits and the barrier to entry for this is really minimal. So, I think it’ll increase even more. There’ll be two million legal podcasts maybe in the future in the legal industry alone.
Chase Williams:
Yeah, I mean I think it’s $10 a month. And then beyond that it’s just time. And then also finding the right crew to help you put together the editing and actually publishing. And then this is a whole other way to really up your marketing game, is you could use micro segments from your podcast to push out on social media or even publish on blogs that are on your website. Next topic, maximizing the potential of your Google My Business locations. And Ryan, you wrote on this GMB/GBP. What’s GBP?
Ryan Klein:
GBP, Google Business Profile. So, Google likes to change the names of things, and I don’t really know why. I wish I had the answer to why Google My Business didn’t work any longer. And if there’s anything that’s been persistent as far as How Law Firms Will Win, I think we do talk about Google Business Profile/GMB/local SEO/Google My Apps, everyone to say, it’s all the same thing. It’s the map pack and search results often coming up for short-fill searches. And the reason we talk about it every year is because consumer behavior and the click throughs are increasing every single year, and we’re just seeing really the weight of the quality leads that are coming in. It seems to be moving in that direction because of where it is in the search result that the average consumer appreciates information that’s presented.
And then also social validation because of course it has reviews where they can measure the quantity and quality. And so, I’m sure last year we talked about maybe things along the lines of virtual offices, and we talked about the importance of reviews. But interesting enough, we can have a new facet of this whole discussion, which is increasing the actual reach of the profile because a lot of times when we’re measuring the success or the position of the Google Business Profile, or maybe we’re using ranking software that kind of enter in your city or the zip code, and it gives you an idea of maybe where you are in that particular search, one, two, or three, which is the only ones that matter because those are the positions on the maps.
But it turns out if you use tools that’ve been around for a while, but they’ve been cost prohibitive in the past, LocalFalcon and Local Viking, which I use interchangeably, but they are separate companies, you can actually see in a grid view the breadth of the rankings that that gets, and you’ll notice that if you look into it a little bit further, you may think that you’re ranking one, two, or three, down the block, in your office, in your general vicinity, but if you go over a mile or two, you might not be on the maps at all. And that could be a huge, missed opportunity, and there are plenty of steps you can take to actually increase the reach of your listing.
Chase Williams:
And we believe in this opportunity so much that we started an entirely new company, Ryan and myself, just focused on this opportunity with Google My Business or Google Business Profiles, that’s really going to double down on local SEO and what businesses are really going to be capable of in the local search.
Ryan Klein:
Hopefully not another podcast, so cannot keep up with everything, an ex-podcast.
Chase Williams:
So, speaking of Google My Business Profiles, something that we always recommend to clients or future clients, or really anybody I talk to, I know it is just low-hanging fruit and it’s just making sure that you’re open 24 hours in your Google My Business Profile. And so many times, hopefully everybody has a call center set up, so when your office is closed and the calls are being answered by somebody, or maybe your receptionist is out to lunch and you can have it go to the call center, but it’s a no-brainer to make sure that your firm’s up in 24 hours because if someone’s looking for a lawyer and it’s 7:00 PM and it says your office is closed, how likely that they call an office that’s closed versus an office that’s open currently 24/7? This is great.
Ryan Klein:
Yeah, exactly. There’s always a missed opportunity with not having access from 5:00 PM to 9:00 in the morning and then also on the weekends. I mean, we are talking about two-thirds of the work week or more, 70% of the work week. We’re not saying that it’s evenly distributed when people call. People know that they should call during work hours, but if you have a vendor in place to be able to take those calls, it’s going to make a difference. And it’s going really beyond 24 hours.
There are a lot of vendors out there that are encouraging people to completely outsource even during your work hours because, when you think about it, and this has been my experience, but I’m sure it’s a lot of the same experiences for others, I don’t really love calling a law firm, and then they pick up and they say, “So-and-so law firm. Please hold.” And then before I can even utter anything, I’m on hold for an indiscernible amount of time. I mean, you’re doing that with people that are potential clients and high-profile clients. And it happens all the time when people are juggling the internal and external and current clients and you go on hold immediately, and for 10 seconds, two minutes, five minutes. I mean, some of that stuff is just being completely moved along to a reliable partner for that kind of thing.
Chase Williams:
So, our final topic of the day, and this sounds like a no-brainer, but we all know it’s bad to have duplicate content on your website, and we’ve done that for a bit, but something that Google’s introducing slowly is not just having duplicate writing on your website, but duplicate imagery. And we all love stock photos, and we all love Shutterstock and Adobe stock to help us create this look that we’re going for but that actually might backfire, we’re learning.
Ryan Klein:
Yeah. People don’t want to look at the scales of justice any longer, or the gavels, or your bookshelf with a lot of legal books that look like they’re 100 years old. It turns out that people want to see people. They want to see the exterior/interior of the office, they want to see original photos because when they’re looking at multiple websites and they all start blending together, who’s going to stand out? And then from an SEO standpoint, just like you said, if there’s duplicate content it’s easily picked up as plagiarized and there’s a little thing called Google Images. You can guarantee that Google’s aware that you can search and see the same image on 500 websites that certainly not help you.
Chase Williams:
Something to consider as well, if you think it’s too expensive or too time-consuming, it’s really not. I mean, you can find a local photographer for a couple of hundred dollars to come for an hour and just take some really crisp images. If you really want to get something up, too, iPhones have great quality photos, though. It’s probably going to be better than… It’s crazy. I know we look at websites sometimes and you’re like, “I can’t wait to talk to this lawyer,” and then you jump on a Zoom with them or something, or meet them in person, and you’re like, “Oh, man, that photo they have on their website is 30 years old.” You wouldn’t-
Ryan Klein:
Where did your hair go? Who are you?
Chase Williams:
Yeah. Like if you were in a lineup at the police station, you’d not be able to identify that person. I mean, it’s that bad sometimes. So, what do your clients think when they’re expecting to meet somebody, and they come into your office and they’re shocked? It’s really important just to be very transparent with who you are, who your team is, and also just the quality’s there regardless of if you do it yourself on an iPhone or hire a local company. I think there’s some really good resources. I’m trying to remember. Oh, it’s called Snapper. Snapper’s the company that we’ve recommended a couple of times, and it’s hit or miss because it is 200, $300 and you’re dealing with photographers that maybe are doing this as their side gig, but it’s definitely a gig economy for these photographers.
Ryan Klein:
And it’s not so much the quality. The quality is pretty much there. Sometimes it’s communication and then the timeliness. And timeliness is pretty important for lawyers, of course. But, yeah, it is you who gets what you pay for. But then again, it’s still, even on, I’m not going to say on the higher-end, I don’t know, the cost associated with this all the time. But again, we’re not talking about thousands of dollars. We’re definitely talking about, we’ve successfully had photo shoots for 500 or less without a doubt, with a library of photos that’ll last them for years of every lawyer, the partners, the team, inside candid photos. I mean, you have hundreds of photos that are all edited afterwards that you’re going to be able to work with for quite some time.
Chase Williams:
So, if you want to read more about the 10 Ways Law Firms Will Win in 2023, Ryan put together a really great comprehensive breakdown with a bunch of additional articles, links, and we’ll make sure to link it to our website here at Market My Market, if you want to read more about it.
